I have been looking forward to the day I earn my next belt for months now. It was really hard to adjust to the different teaching styles I was accustomed to. I've been super faithful in my attendance, taking notes, going to great seminars and getting some privates in. This sport is a serious addiction for me...a religion really. I know that just because you attend all the classes it doesn't mean you are the level that you think you should be. Not everyone is a sponge and not everyone can pull off the techniques you learned in class with ease. I think I do pretty good for the training I received...I certainly think I can land the promotion....and I absolutely don't mean that in a arrogant way. I most certainly do not get anything given to me and the guys here are very hard on me. I have gotten black eyes, cauliflower ear, and my elbow popped. I can't complain because I choose to participate in this sport..it is just how it works, you know? I wear it like a badge of honor really..unfortunately, I get asked a lot if I feel safe at home when I go for check ups. LOL!
Anyways, the time for testing is finally around the corner. It is a 3 day event, covering all the techniques you should know for karate, pancrase, and bjj. We are required to do the entire 3 days plus a 3 mile run to test out. I only do muay thai and bjj (pancrase is included in our nogi classes). I found out that the cost is $100 bucks for basic members and $50 for upgraded members. I was like ok, that isn't so bad. I signed up. Then I got the newsletter.It stated that each stripe you earn is $25 and a blue belt is $100. $50 for each stripe after blue and $200 for your purple and so on..you get the picture. Each discipline has it's own fees. Maybe I am spoiled by my original Gracie academy I started with. Where there wasn't formal testing and no extra fees. If you were ready, the instructor awarded you whatever it is he felt you deserved. When I learned it could cost me 150 to 200 bucks, I was quite put off, discouraged and disgusted. I immediately withdrew my name from testing. I recognize that facilities need to make some revenue to function. And I was okay with the testing fees, just not the belt fee. I felt like I would just be purchasing myself the next level instead of earning my advancement. Am I totally being ridiculous about this? Is this a normal price range? I don't need the belt, but it's nice to know where my jj stands. I asked the instructor about how he felt about my jj..he said it was hard to gauge since I don't compete for him here and that I'm too nice to my training partners. I thought you should be kind enough to them that you both could continue to train another day!?!
They told me that if the fee was an issue, they had payment plans. It isn't the money for me, it's more principle. A few days later after I declined testing, they sent me a text saying they would only charge me half. I think I would rather wait till I make it back to my original affiliation to earn my belt, even if it takes me years to get orders back there. Is it wrong to feel offended about this?
I'd like to know what you guys think about promotions and advancements in this sport.( I do compete, but have not lately. Mostly teaching women's self defense and participating in classes.) How do you guys feel about the way promotions work and these fees? Just need some input from outside the box. Do you think you need to constantly win competitions to prove your level? Should having that next stripe or belt be that important to you that you pay whatever they ask? How does your academy advancements work?
You should never have to pay for a belt test in BJJ: that is without any doubt abnormal in BJJ.
ReplyDeleteThe one situation where it makes sense is if you're an affiliate, and the instructor has to bring in the overseeing black belt for a seminar in order to do a grading. I can understand the instructor needs to pay the black belt something, so that is fair enough.
However, the situation you've described sounds like typical TMA. That is not how it should be done in BJJ: a large part of the appeal of BJJ is that it gets away from the problems of TMA (McDojos, kiddie black belts, paid for gradings that test your wallet rather than your skill level, etc).
As to promotions, I think this, and in regards to belts, I think this.
I really, really love your post on belts and promotions. So many excellent points. I do feel like it would be a waste for me even bother with their belt testing here. I drove 8 hrs to train with Daniel Moraes after that episode. I will be making that a frequent weekend trip and pursue my promotions only thru a "traditional" academy ( that's what the instructor calls us). I don't care how long it takes me, I just love to roll! I head to Texas next week to train with my Relson Gracie family...even though it's my vacation! Thanks for your response..at least I know that I'm not overreacting. =)
ReplyDeleteThanks! And yeah, you're definitely not overreacting: I think 99% of people in BJJ would feel the same way you do.
ReplyDeleteWhat is really sad is the number of my teammates who are going to follow thru and pay for it. Some have never been to other academies, so they don't know that this is wrong. I'm not gonna bad mouth the school I'm attending to other students there..they can decide for themselves. As for now, it's the only place I can train at 6 days a week until something better opens up. This town is kinda small and there are limited choices. I wonder if he will honor my promotion if I earn it elsewhere? LOL
ReplyDeleteIt is possible that they wouldn't honour your promotion, particularly if it is a different team: do all the academies in their organisation charge for belt tests and belts?
ReplyDeleteThough not honouring a promotion from a reputable instructor (especially a huge name like Relson) would look very, very strange. As with paying for your belt, generally not the done thing in BJJ.
Another thing to consider is how much belts actually mean to you. If this club provides great training, top notch instructor, helpful partners etc, then you could always not bother with the belt.
Others will notice you never go to the paid gradings, and perhaps look around the net to see if paid gradings are normal.
You could also keep entering competitions and winning them, as you get to a skill level that warrants a higher belt.
Eventually, your training partners will start muttering to the instructor "damn, this woman keeps smashing me and I'm a blue/purple/brown. Promote her already!"
I can't think of anyone who has done this, but I'd be very interested to see if a TMA style BJJ instructor could be embarrassed into promoting someone who refuses to ever attend a grading or pay for a belt. ;)
Well, I am curious to see how this will pan out. My instructor is mainly a karate guy, but he has a brown belt from Charuto and Pedro Sauer. His reasoning was that one is for self defense based and the other is sport based. I have never met anyone who felt they needed to achieve multiple belts in the same discipline. I find it odd in my limited experience. I do occasionally train with a purple belt that is in the Ribeiro system. He(the purple) only recognizes belts attained under the Gracie system. So it is interesting to me how different places work to me. I suppose the belt isn't truly important to me in comparison to the quality of training I get. Yes, it is nice to get your skill recognized. I want to eventually be able to earn my black belt and teach. This is what I do the majority of the day. I think I can only be as good as the training partners I have. That's why I like to travel and hit up new places just to get some variety in the mix. I'm definitely addicted to this sport. LOVE IT! I can respect their school's rules, but I won't bend on the belt fees..lol..even if that means I will be a sandbagger. Where do you train at?
ReplyDeleteI'm hoping sandbagging = embarrassed instructor = new belt = removal of silly belt fees. I linked this post over on Facebook, as it seems like an unusual situation. :)
ReplyDeleteI train at Roger Gracie Buckinghamshire here in the UK, having recently got my purple from Roger and my instructor, Kev Capel.
Does the school have a website? I'd be interested in reading more about their background and program structure. The TMA element makes more sense in a Sauer school, as he is fairly traditional.
Earning belts in the same discipline is strange, but may become more common with the "only we teach self defence" marketing push from the Gracie Academy (which I babble about here).
Congrats on your purple! I bet that place is awesome! Roger Gracie is a beast, as is the people he trains, I'm sure!
ReplyDeleteThis is their website and they are also on Facebook. They just changed the site recently, but I never found it helpful. here
I also train at this other school, where I volunteer to teach the ladies self defense. They JUST opened and is a Saulo Ribeiro affiliate. They have a great charity going on called In The Cage For Kids. Also on Facebook. hereI prefer the family feel here, which reminds my more of my Gracie family in Texas. When somebody competes..they all show up to support. The other place's instructor doesn't show up to coach or anything. Basically, on your own. It may be a minor thing, but I appreciate that kind of gesture, you know?
Thanks! Yeah, I started out at the main Roger Gracie Academy in London, which is now one of the biggest BJJ clubs in Europe, AFAIK. At the moment, I'm at an affiliate in Bucks, which I really like because the instructor, Kev Capel, is not only awesome, but around my size.
ReplyDeleteI'll be moving down to Bristol at some point, where there is also a school affiliated with Roger, and another good instructor. He's much bigger than me, but I like the way he runs his classes, judging by the five I've been to on visits.
Cheers: I see what you mean by "mainly a karate guy". Given that I'm guessing the karate came first, I can understand how the BJJ there has adopted a TMA structure for promotion (i.e., charging for belts and stripes, belt tests etc). He presumably was already used to doing it that way due to the karate side of things.
And yeah, they could do with revamping the site: bit awkward to navigate. Looking for BJJ, the important information (instructor's bio, class timetable, location) isn't immediately obvious.
The other place looks like it has some impressive people on staff, going by all those hefty MMA records with 30+ fights. Much better website too, as I could at least work out where they had their BJJ rank from and when classes were running.
Presumably you would train there full time rather than splitting between the two if they had more classes?
Absolutely. I prefer to constantly train. I have to keep my wheels turning so to speak. We love to travel and hope to come train there one day! These days we always try to incorporate BJJ into all our travels!
ReplyDeleteYeah, I'm super-keen to do some kind of training trip around bits of the US, as it would be awesome to meet some of the bloggers I've been chatting to online for the last few years. Time and money obviously not easy to come by, though.
ReplyDeleteSo for now, I'll have to live vicariously through amazing trips like this. I think Julia has a US planned too.
That's pretty insanely steep.
ReplyDeleteMy school charges, but only about as much as each stripe costs at your academy. Maybe it's the business person in me, but I don't see charging for tests as being too horrible...as long as prices aren't extravagant and there are payment options available.
Yep! I do have a trip planned! Less than a month away! I'm VERY excited about it!
ReplyDeleteI think it's awful that the belt system at your school is working the way that a TMA works. Frustrating. Our BJJ schools in Korea don't work that way, and we invented TKD! :)
Megan, I certainly don't mind paying fees because I know they have a business to run..but the belt fee was twice the testing fee!
ReplyDeleteJulia, I certainly hope if you are near my area that you hit me up. I'm always up for a roadtrip and BJJ. I used to be stationed at Camp Edwards in Korea. I loved the shopping and enjoyed my first experience outside the US. I was new to the Army back then..I was 17. My daughter is graduating from the Air Force on the 1st hence to Texas trip. Hopefully, I can train with Georgette again..but I'm not certain she will be back from the Pans yet. I know I'd be taking my sweet time there, enjoying the scenery!
There are so many great things I learn from all you guys' sites and blogs. Like I said before, I'm merely beginning my BJJ journey and already addicted to an always evolving sport (although I dig the old school style too). I appreciate the feedback and insight you guys give me. Our doors are always open to anyone who wants to come visit the area or train...